Навальный – о революции, Кавказе и Спартаке (English subs)

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25.000000 (male announcer voice) Aviasales! Find cheap flights! Greetings, Yuriy! Be honest, when was the last time you bribed someone? "All Navalniy does is shit all over everything." Unbelievable! - On the bottom? - I wish! Exclusive information right here. About a week ago, you got out of the spetspriyomnik*. What have you been doing for those ten days? I read.

It's the best place for reading.

I read several thousand pages. There are books every person has to read in their life, but they can't find the time for years. My recommendation: flip your district officer — they'll lock you up for ten days.

You mean give them the finger? Or verbally. Some such thing.

You can pull on an officer's sleeve, get 15 days and read away.

What did you read? For example, I finally read Don Quixote. It's actually a pretty large book. Two-parter.

Everyone reads Don Quixote in school, but it's a tiny adapted version. In reality, it's this huge book, and I finally read it. I finally read Catch 22.

There's a bunch of very large, very important books, and I finally got the time to read them.

Who kept you company? One guy was a detainee from the demonstration. Another was Sania, a man from Ivanovo who'd spent 19 years in prison.

His last sentence was 12 years for murder. One was from Krasnodar. There were a bunch of ex-cons this time.

I guess courts now lock up people who previously served time for any minor offense. Hence, the company I got. You mean they lock 'em up for violating parole? For any minor offense where an officer would let YOU go scot-free or a judge would fine YOU for 2000 rubles, an ex-con will probably get 10 days of detention.

It's a stupid system, totally unfair, but that's how it works. There's a lot of ex-cons in there.

Did Sania tell anything interesting? Lots of stories. He's from Ivanovo. I know everything about Ivanovo prisons and how they're different from other prisons.

But actually, serving with adults, with ex-cons... I mean, this was my sixth time in detention. 15 days every time.

Serving with adults ,where you can tell they've served time before, is a good thing, 'cause they know the rules, they're not twitching.

They know the etiquette.

They know these things perfectly, way better than me. - What about dedovshina*? - No, nothing of the sort.

There's no dedovshina in prison either, if I understand correctly.

They're all normal people. The main rule is the rule of shared living space: be reasonable, don't bother others, maintain cleanliness, and you'll be just fine. Serving the 15 with these people is the most comfortable, because they'll even help you learn these rules.

They're all relaxed, fun to talk to, all have great stories. What was the tastiest meal in there? They served makaroni po-flotski*, but I'm fasting, so I didn't eat it. It looked pretty appetizing, and their food is actually pretty good.

Spetspriyomnik is not like prison, you have to keep that in mind. It's more like a dorm they lock you up in. You lie, you sleep, or you read.

They take you to the cafeteria three times a day and once, for a walk. So it's not as awful as people tend to think. Fasting — are you a strict Orthodox Christian? I'm Orthodox, but not strict.

I do observe the fasts though. Do you mainly fast to get in better physical shape? Oh, certainly not. On the contrary.

Since you mostly eat plant-based, but calorie-rich things like porridge, you can actually GAIN weight. But food abstinence isn't what the fast is all about, is it? Every Great Fast, for the past several years, I've been setting a goal for myself to not yell at anyone, and I've failed every time so far.

But I don't lose hope. The first thing that you heard when you came home? I mean when you saw your wife and children. The children shouted, "Daddy!" with joy, and ran up to me.

Pretty much how it happens in the movies.

They actually haven't seen you for a while, so they run up and hug you. It's become standard at this point. The wife says, "Well, finally! Welcome home." Crap, I wanna get away from the family like him.

Only not to a spetspriyomnik or jail. So, Tioma, you know how my childhood friends and I love punk rock? Anyway, we learned that this summer, Blink 182, the favorite band of our youth, is touring across Europe.

is touring across Europe. On June 26, they're blowing up Rotterdam.

Gonna be a huge solo show for all the local potheads and us too, of course. We're getting airplane tickets! Aviasales is here to help us. This is their app.

Don't wanna fly too early though. This flight might arrive too late for the show.

I mean it definitely will.

This one looks good though. Thanks, Aviasales! Follow the link below and download their wonderful app. How long did it take you to produce He Is Not Dimon to You? The total area of the property is 3.7 hectares.

The total price of the estate is 7 billion rubles*.

To us, the hardest and most painful part was editing. All the special effects. The film, if you watched it, I believe you did...

- ...it's pretty well-made in terms of editing.

- The effects were cool, yeah.

We did it all in-house.

This was a secret project after all. We couldn't outsource it. We couldn't involve too many outsiders.

So we did the graphics ourselves. It all but drove us nuts.

We're not very good at it, and it was tough. We're good at everything else. We're good at investigating.

Over the course of six months, we'd filmed all the dachas with drones. It took us three weeks to a month to put together the basis of the investigation. It took us three weeks to a month to put together the basis of the investigation.

'Cause we used open data: 'Cause we used open data: Rosreyestr, Legal Body Database, Cyprus Database. So it took us just a few weeks to determine that Medvedev is deeply corrupt and has used a scheme involving charity foundations.

The rest of the work was to frame and prove it all.

This part took six months. - The budget? - 415 thousand rubles*.

Most of this money was travel expenses.

Italy took up a large portion of this budget.

We needed to go there to shoot the vineyard: plane tickets, hotel room. So here's something I was wondering.

You were shooting some fairly high-profile property. So your drone's flying over all these different sites, and you're telling me that not a single warden or guard paid heed? This is the most widespread confusion.

Can you picture?..

I would've brought this drone over, had you told me to. It's this small.

It's flying 100 meters in the air. You won't even see it.

Even if you're a warden with a rifle and you're waiting for this drone.

It moves pretty fast.

You can't shoot it down with a rifle. An assault rifle can't hit it. You can't shoot it down with buck shot like a duck, 'cause it's pretty high up.

Besides, usually you don't expect it. Why do you think Putin and Medvedev changed the GPS around Kremlin? You know that when you drive by Kremlin, your GPS says you're in Vnukovo, right? - Why? - Because it's the only way to fight drones. You can't shoot it down.

It's really, really hard to shoot down. All the sites we shot are guarded by the FSO*. But how do they shoot it down? Speaking as a journalist, briefly if you may, is it a strong piece? I believe it's a major piece with every bit of requisite proof.

Why does the film never mention ILIM PULP? Why does the film never mention ILIM PULP? We do mention it. 'Cause some of those people used to work with Medvedev in Ilim Pulp, We do mention it.

'Cause some of those people used to work with Medvedev in Ilim Pulp, We do mention it.

'Cause some of those people used to work with Medvedev in Ilim Pulp, and they're included in this system. It's just that we didn't aim to investigate Medvedev's old cases. - That's not what I meant.

- What did you mean then? - You say in the film that Medvedev spends more than just his salary.

- We do.

If I'm not mistaken, between 1993 and 1998... - ...Medvedev was a co-owner of Ilim Pulp. - He wasn't.

He worked for them. He worked for them.

He owned 20%.

He was the managing director. - 20% means that he pocketed a fifth of the dividends.

- Correct. - This company now has sales of over $1 billion and a net profit of...

- And?..

- He could've become a billionaire before entering office? - No, he couldn't have, Yuriy.

One peculiarity of public office is that you have to file a declaration. When you enter a public office, in your very first declaration you list absolutely everything you have.

You can't have any secret billions outside of it. You can't go, "By the way, you guys! I actually dug up a chest 20 years ago! It was filled with rubies and sapphires!" Because when you enter a public office, you've already filed a declaration with everything you own. So if five years later, you all of a sudden own palaces, boats and vineyards, the question becomes: where did you get the money? Hold on.

He may have donated the money to all of those foundations in 1998. But he didn't. Those palaces didn't exist in 1998.

They were built much later.

Things simply don't add up time-wise. They're plain facts: one, Medvedev couldn't afford to buy all these things back then, and two, he bought them with charity foundation money specifically to make it impossible to prove his direct legal ownership. So you dismiss the possibility that he was a billionaire before becoming PM? I dismiss it completely.

Medvedev himself never claimed to be a billionaire. He instead always insisted that he was merely a hired lawman and never meddled in business.

- March 26 demonstrations. - Yes. When did you realize it was time to call people to the streets? About a week or two after the release.

I was waiting for a response! We released an investigation! This was a great investigation.

Millions of people were watching it.

Journalists were discussing it. People would come up to me in the street and ask questions about the investigation.

I could see that it upset and stirred up everyone. - I mean, 80 billion rubles*! - It's a lot. - It is.

The way he spent the 80 billion was pretty disgusting too. We have a great video from Kursk Oblast with drone shots of utmost poverty, followed by his luxurious property. Though I've been doing this for a while, this makes me...

That's probably the reason I'm doing this so actively — that despite seeing displays of corruption all the time, it still genuinely pisses me off every time. So I wanted a response.

Any response. They should've said something.

They should've at least made up a lie. Like they do today. Maybe say: "Navalniy tricked you.

These are orphanages." Or say: "Navalniy made it all up. This property doesn't exist.

It's all CG." They should've said something, anything! 'Cause millions of people are wondering about this. Whether they like me or not, they're curious about this. I was putting this question down.

I wanted an answer but didn't hear one. So I eventually came here and went, "Let's do a rally or something then." I honestly didn't expect...

How many people DID you expect to come out? I expected... In the beginning, when I'd just posted about it, I thought: "If we get rallies, at all, in ten major cities, "with a large 50 to 100 thousand- strong rally in Moscow, "that would be great." But when I saw a week later that we had a hundred registered cities and towns with dedicated event groups on VKontakte with real people in them, I realized that I'd probably underestimated the outrage about what was happening. How many actually came out in Moscow? In Moscow, about 30 thousand attended the unapproved rally.


This was the largest unapproved rally since the '90s. Fifth-graders on rallies.

Right or wrong? You can't have rule of the people in a large country. Everyone has their own wants.

I'm talking about the city of Tomsk. I think it's right.

It's one person.

He came with his parents, not on his own, didn't he? To be honest, I don't believe that a fifth-grader, or this particular one, doesn't have the right to say something. Some fifth-graders are into politics.


Doesn't a fifth-grader that suggests amendments to the Constitution undermine the whole rally? Again. We're talking about a single fifth-grader that went to every rally.

Obviously, he was the center of attention, 'cause: "Look at that! A fifth-grader at a rally!" Now everyone's discussing this fifth-grader. There's nothing wrong with it.

But to say that we had fifth-graders at all of our rallies would be an exaggeration, wouldn't it? (title card music) Why do you think, with 18 million views, it didn't get shut down? - Why didn't they come up with something? - The documentary? How do you shut it down? We even bought... We used the song American Boy.

- We bought the rights to this song. - How much? 15 000 rubles* for two songs. We bought American Boy and Russian Girl as a distraction.

To keep them guessing about out purpose. We did everything to cover it from copyright strikes.

How else do you shut it down? YouTube doesn't block videos for nothing. So we...

We put a lot of thought into preventing... 'Cause the documentary about Chayka* got 3 million views, and they blocked it after a claim from some hotel photographer or some such shit.

So we were very diligent this time around. The documentary about Chayka is currently blocked? They blocked it, and we spent two days proving to YouTube that they should unblock it. They did.

But this was the peak, and we lost like a million views.

(title card music) 2013. Rally at Sokolniki*.

I hear these words: "When it's time to turn over cars..." That's the Bolotnaya rally, not Sokolniki! It's the final rally of my campaign. My bad! "When it's time to turn over cars, I'll let you know." "When it's time to... And this time may come!" "I'll summon you to join unapproved rallies, "to turn over cars, to wave flares, et cetera." "This time may come." Three years later, I'm wondering: "Whose cars? Mine too?" No, no one should turn your can over.

But on the 26th, I was in a police bus, I saw people pull out parked cars to block the road to stop this bus from taking me away. I'd stick outside and shout: "Please, don't. Go home." I'm grateful to those people, albeit they were using someone else's property to block the road.

But that's, you know... But we saw the same thing on the 6th of may, where you shouted: "Don't leave! Stay where you are." Yes, because I believe that people had the right to stay on that square. They weren't threatening or assaulting anyone.

They weren't asking for money. They weren't being paid by the state. They're typical, normal citizens with the right to assemble in their hometown.

Thing is, we often discuss this in terms like: "Why did they assemble? The police wanted to disperse them." "They should've dispersed.

Why did they stay? Why did they shove cars?" Tomorrow, they'll tells us to wear muzzles.

I promise you, someone will say, "Why are you taking your muzzles off?" "They're paid for with state money!" "They cost 27 rubles each!" - People have natural rights. - Muzzles are bad. True.

- Dispersing people on squares is bad too.

- What about cars? What about them? Of course it's bad that someone pulled them out to...

As far as I know, were mostly undamaged. But...

Does what you said back there mean that there may be a time when Navalniy will go: "Guys. Let's burn some cars"? - Yes.

- Including mine. I hope your car won't be among them.

I hope that all the burned cars will have insurance. Let's put it this way. If fascists launch an offensive on Russia tomorrow, and in order to halt their tanks we need to turn over Yuriy's car...

That one stinks of Solovyov*. Comparing...

But you're exaggerating this example too. You're discussing a hypothetical situation, not a real one. No, no, no.

I'm discussion what you literally said. I literally said that we didn't need civil disorder right now.

I said, "Guys, please, don't..." What happened in 2013? We had vote rigging, whereby I placed second but lost in the first round. We knew that Sobianin got less than 50% of votes and there was supposed to be a second round. I was standing in front of thousands of outraged people.

Many of them, obviously, figured: "They be riggin'? We be burnin'!" That's not an unusual impulse in this situation. So I went: "Guys, let's not vandalize or set things on fire." "There may be a time for that.

There very well may be." "But this is not the time." So...

words matter, but context does too, doesn't it? Is there a chance that you may have to take the power in a revolutionary fashion? Can you explain what "revolutionary fashion" means? It means taking the government down by force. I mean...

Would you say the Soviet Union ended as a result of a revolution or evolution? Was there a violent takedown? Or did it end itself? - It ended itself. - Exactly.

As they usually do. - Ukraine. Was that a violent takedown? - No.

I don't believe so.

Rather than a violent takedown, we saw violence committed as part of the government's illegal actions. Yanukovich first started to illegally disperse people.

Then they started shooting them. This obviously led to violence in response. We know what happened afterward.

But in essence, this was a totally peaceful protest. When the government starts to chase people away and gun them down, it's THEM instigating violence and any sort of revolution. What happened in this country in 1917? If they didn't try to gun down a peaceful demonstration in 2005, if they didn't resort to violence, if the tsar back then wasn't committed to being the only absolute monarch in Europe and agreed to a constitutional monarchy, none of it would've happened.

For Russia, any change, including positive change, to the social structure would be a revolution today. If there's no more corruption in Russia tomorrow, would you call it a revolution? I'd call it an awesome revolution. If domestic wealth is distributed a little bit more fairly in Russia tomorrow, that's also a revolution.

That's not what I meant. You're talking about a synonym or a metaphor for "revolution." I'm talking literal stuff: all-out fighting in cities, government taken down by force, no matter how, even make the president skip town in his undies.


You're describing all the movies about the Winter Palace.

Well, let me tell you: I don't see any precursors to a revolution in Russia today.

Even the dissolution of the Soviet Union didn't involve any significant violence, even in Moscow. There was some during the constitutional crisis in 1994. Three people were crushed during the offensive.

I see now precursors for a civil war or any sort of violence. On the contrary, TV's trying to scare us into believing that there are.

You said "stinks of Solovyov." That's exactly what Solovyov does.

When you bring up corruption, he starts shouting: "No! Remember Ukraine!" "All this talk about corruption will lead to Ukraine, to Maydan, blah blah blah." Why suddenly Maydan? Look at what happened in South Korea. They had huge, massive rallies. The president, the corrupt president, resigned.

She left the office. She was impeached. - That's a normal outcome.

- Bad example. Different national mentality.

- Is it? Excuse me, Yuriy... - They had the daughter of the head... ...of an airline, or was it the man himself, begging for forgiveness on their knees...

- She was begging to be forgiven for acting... - For the peanuts? Yeah, the peanuts in business class.

Sure, but speaking of mentality, let me remind you that besides South Korea, there's also North Korea. They've got corruption abound. They've got totalitarianism.

Their explanation for the masses is that, "we, North Koreans, have a unique mentality." - While South Koreans are doing fine.

- Though they're the same nation, yeah. You're running for president in 2018. I know a lot of people who are convinced that if Navalniy becomes president, it's gonna be 1937 all over again, because half of the country is going thataway.

I wanna reassure those people by saying that a portion of the Russian elite has to go thataway. That's where they belong. They're breaking the law.

They're stealing so much that by any law, moral, social, legal, they must be punished. But we're not talking about mass repression. The biggest corruptionists should certainly go to jail, but we're not talking about...

- Millions of school teachers are involved in vote rigging.

- Exactly! Okay, hundreds of thousands, not millions. You can't put them all in jail at once, can you? And you shouldn't.

They'll work under different rules. We just need to put those rules in place.

Okay, but today, everyone's in the chain of corruption. Everyone! Corruption is currently the foundation of the state. How do you choose who goes to jail and who doesn't? By the amount they've stolen? So about the stolen amount.

Take a rayon hospital doctor.

- Are they involved in corruption? They usually are.

- Yeah.

- They take candy gifts and might have even set someone up with a surgery for 20 thousand. - Yeah. You think they've stolen a lot? - Not as much as the people in your desk calendar.

- Yeah. Ergo, you have corruption that's immensely dangerous to the society, that's unmaking this country.

Those corruptionists must be brought to justice. Everyone else who lives by corrupt rules because they don't have a choice, because that's how Russia operates, we tell 'em: "Guys, the rules have changed." "If you continue to take bribes under these new rules, "you'll end up in jail." But no one's gonna chase every doctor or teacher, or even mid-level official, and punish them.

For those cases, we'll pass an embezzlement law. If we find out that an official with a salary of one million rubles owns a dacha worth 20 million rubles, we tell them, "Either you explain it, or we're filing charges." That's the criterion.

When was the last time you bribed someone, honestly? I guess back when I was a student and used to drive a car, I won't deny having given money to traffic officers. That's sometime in the '90s.

- Not once since? - What's the point? - We'll put a halo above your head. - There's no need! (church choir singing) Your videos get 1.5 to 2 million views on average.

Out of them, maybe 30 thousand people have bribed someone. Businessmen often slip bribes.

Serial traffic law offenders often slip bribes. Most people don't have the need to bribe anyone. Bribes are often solicited from them.

Or hinted at. But if you decide you're done bribing people, which I did one day... - I even remember the day.

- Tell us. I'd drive, break traffic rules. You've tinted windows.

Officer stops you: "So how are we going to settle this, buddy?" You put X rubles into your ID book and hand it to him. Like everyone else.

I was studying law, right? Sometime in year three, I figured I was a super savvy lawman. "Screw them! I'm not giving them any more bribes! I'll intimidate them!" I tried intimidating them. So they took my license.

Had this temporary ID in its place. They revoked that one too.

This was the result of my stance.

I was young. I was a student.

This desire of mine to fight back and prove to them that I'm tough, because I was now a lawyer, became the first step to... I acted pretty stupidly. I tried to scold and yell at those officers, even after a traffic offense on my part.

But this was the first step towards deciding, "I'm not bribing anyone again." I haven't since. (title card music) - Who was the best politician in history? - Jesus Christ.

He wasn't exactly a politician, but he changed everything around him. He created a new paradigm of social evolution. He set forth rules so grand...

that people die for them. These rules are followed.

He changed everything. As far as I know, he didn't hold a political office. What difference doesn't make? Sitting on some throne does not a politician make.

King Herod wasn't a politician either then. Jesus Christ was a social activist and a historical figure that changed everything.

Sure. But of the people who wore suits and held offices? - A lot of people! - Who for example? Someone in a suit? Mandela.


He spent 30 years in jail... Someone who turned a second-world country into a third-world country? It's not that simple. He changed a lot.

First off, he fought and achieved freedom for his people. Second, he achieved international and internal concord.

Yeah, South Africa is developing much worse today than it used to, but he beat apartheid. In that sense, he's a great man.

Leaders that followed him made a lot of mistakes. But denying that he was great is wrong and plain silly. 'Cause this man spent 38 years at a labor camp! And still achieved his goals! Peacefully, too.

Without shooting or torturing anyone of those who imprisoned him. (title card music) Last fall, you did everything to bash Yabloko's run in the Duma election. Who told you that? Hold on.

You posted on social media saying: "Do not vote for Yabloko, 'cause god forbid they get the necessary votes to..." You're reading some fake Aleksey Navalniy blog, Yuriy! That's not what I said. I said that I don't consider this election an election and I'm not going to vote.

But if someone wants to, they can vote for Yabloko or Parnas. I also proposed the "550 rubles" project. Because each vote, when you vote a party, turns into a specific sum for the party.

If you vote for the communists, they will get 550 rubles for your vote over their term in the Duma. - Yes. - I said, find the wisest spender.

In the weeks leading up to the election, you said live on Echo of Moscow and everywhere else that Yabloko got their voter money from the state and did jack shit.

- Like everyone else. - You call that support? You were literally bashing them. You made your supporters go: "I'm not voting for them!" I bashed everyone.

I bashed the communists, I bashed the LDPR. - Bashing THEM makes sense.

- You either bash everyone or... Those people were going to Duma to... ...sit like this and listen.

Whereas Yabloko is, with all its flaws... - Weak and shaky. - I'm not arguing with that.

- But they're still opposition! - I used to be a member of Yabloko! - Certainly.

We'll talk about that later! (Navalniy laughs) - But you did everything to stop the voters from supporting them. - No! - Was that jealousy? Can you explain? - No.

You got it all wrong.

I mean, I can tell you without a hint of pretense that I'm pissed that my Progress Party, a normal party that would've made the cut, that can and is willing to run normal campaigns, is denied registration.

We were denied registration four times.

On our fifth attempt, they registered it and removed it a month later.

That pisses me off. The fact that some... There are some stupid, worthless, nonexistent parties, the Kremlin gives them their okay, but won't register us.

You expect me to...? They won't allow me in the election. They won't allow my party in the election.

You expect me to tell the voters to vote for parties that I know will not make the cut anyway? 'Cause they're not doing jack. Even with hundreds of millions of rubles of state funding, They can't publish a paper or make a YouTube channel, or do an investigation — they do zilch. So I was bashing everyone.

- Okay. I get why you...

- I prefer Yabloko to the communists, but I obviously dislike all of them. Gudkov. Someone who fell in with Yabloko by chance.

Someone who, if I recall correctly, helped you out a lot with your 2013 campaign...

- He wasn't involved. At all.

- He didn't help you then? I never asked him to, really.

He helped whenever I asked. I like Gudkov.

He didn't make the cutoff in his single-member district by only several thousand votes in 2016.

Several thousand votes are a major hurdle. What stopped Aleksey Navalniy from saying: "Guys, Yavlinskiy* is certainly an old fart, "but Gudkov is a young and spry dude." "If you're from North-West Moscow (or East), lend him you vote." - What stopped you? - My dear Yuriy! If I could do *whoosh!* I would've gone, "I want 5 million subscribers on my YouTube channel!" It doesn't work like that.

People are not my property. They don't vote for whoever Navalniy points at.

At best, it's a couple percent.

That's what he needed. Just a wee bit. Wee bit my backside.

Not a wee bit.

He lost like everyone else. Many lost because they didn't allow normal candidates in, including ours. But most importantly, I have something to do with this election.

If they didn't let me... Let's hear you opinion, actually. Do I have the right to run in elections? What kind? Any kind.

Presidential, legislative, municipal — any election. I'd put it differently: I'd like to have that option. Yes more than no.

- Do I have any kind of public support? - Yes. Thus my question: why didn't you help Gudkov to some of it? If I'm not allowed in this election, I believe it would be wrong for me to... I'm not allowed in, but I'm telling people to go vote? You have to agree that it sounds schizophrenic.

But someone not making the cutoff by a wee bit is nonsense.

Let me get this straight. In a Titanic-like scenario, when people are drowning... - ...and your choice is between everyone drowning...

- Why do you keep..? - ...and saving at least some people, Gudkov or whatever...

- No! ...you'll let everyone drown? If Putin was dying on this very floor, would I give him CPR? That's your next question. - Don't resort to absurdity.

- I'd love to know actually! Would you? Of course I'd give him CPR! That's what you do, because... But your analogies are all wrong! There's no Titanic.

You have a specific election.


It's a rigged election.

That they didn't allow me or my party to run in. Let's run with your analogy for a bit then. They won't let me in the presidential election, but simultaneously with the presidential election, there's a mayoral vote in Backwatersville and there's a very honest candidate that you really like and who helped my campaign.

Should I encourage everyone to go vote to help him? Still probably no.

Because some things are more important than others. (title card music) Would you agree that you're a leaderist? Absolutely, 100%, no. You probably know a lot of people who work for the Anti-Corruption Foundation.

- I do. I mean... - Because they're there.

- Yeah. We created a channel. They're the channel's hosts.

They all ran for seats on the Opposition Coordination Council.

They've all run for various offices and I supported them.

They all lose to you in charisma and popularity by 100 points. Including your closest aid.

We do everything we can to help them practice. We do everything we can to help them practice.

But it's a leader thing. Some people might emerge tomorrow whom I'll debate, you'll host the event, and I'll lose to them. The fact that I'm ahead of them CURRENTLY...

I appreciate your comment about my charisma, but let's be honest, I'm more charismatic than not just any ACF member, but also some of the mainstream opposition leaders, right? - Let's do another analogy then.

- Shoot.

You once called Yavlinskiy "a leaderist-type politician." - Yeah. He was throwing me out of the party. - I get why you said that.

But even this "leaderist-type politician" during the recent election had among the fifteen party candidates someone like Schlosberg and someone like Gudkov. - But Schlosberg is a member of Yabloko! - Yes.

- Your point? Even this leaderist has people around him that you vaguely know who they are, what they do and what they say. The rest are certainly faceless.

- Can you point to someone around you who..? - Such an unfounded rebuke! - Haven't you recently been on Sobol's show? - I haven't. Yet. (Dud') Liuba Sobol is certainly a great morning show dresser.

Good for her.

She's a very beautiful lady. She's a great dresser, but that's not where her real qualities lie.

She's a world-class lawyer and leads the RosPil project. She's canceled billions worth of corrupt state contracts. You know her very well.

She's applied for elections. She tried to run for office, and they didn't let her. Great support worker, but not a frontwoman.

- You call THAT "support?" - Not even a guy. Wow.

This is...

On behalf of all male and female feminists, this is an utterly unacceptable comment.

So what that she's not a guy? She does great work. She writes up bills.

She knows her stuff better than any guy. She hosts a show every morning with over 100 thousand viewers. She'd be a great State Duma deputy.

They've got 450 boneheads. Sobol would do a better job than any one of them.

Let me tell you that any ACF member... They're all public figures too.

They just don't allow them on TV. But on all of our platforms, like my blog or our YouTube channel, they all present themselves, give their real names and talk about their work. And every one of them would be a better Minister than the ones we have and a better deputy than the ones we have.

So I wholeheartedly deny accusations of leaderism because I do everything in my power to promote our team members.

(title card music) (Dud') How many of them do you know? Anyone? - (Navalniy) I know Wylsa of course. We met in person. - Yeah.

This is the Horosho show guy, right? - This Is Horosho. - Yeah.

- I know this face. Unfortunately, without the name. - Usachev.

Don't know these two. (Dud') Danila Poperechniy.

And this one, I believe, you'll run against in some election.

(Navalniy) Given that he's wearing a suit and a tie... It's not that. Just wait and see.

This man will run against you pretty soon.

- There's a pretty good chance he'll beat you too. - Damn. Better come up with a counter-strat.

Wait, was he the guy who said that he's voting for me in this election? - (Female voice) Yes. That's Nikolay Sobolev.

- Great guy! (title card music) You're certainly a fantastic blogger and journalist. The way you present material, that deserves respect from pretty much anyone who deals with content. But a lot of people how one issue.

What kind of phrase is that? "A lot of people." "Some of my friends take issue with..." Sure. What's the issue? I can give you the names. It's not just my opinion that I brought today.

It's like asking: "Who's your Minister of Defense?" Who are these people with an issue? The issue is this. "Navalniy has absolutely nothing positive to say." "All Navalniy does is shit on everything that's going on." Unbelievable! Just unbelievable! Who are these people? Okay, give me the names, I'll blacklist them right now.

I'll start with myself.

Browsing navalny.com, I'm left speechless by outbursts like: "Look! A law that lets Timchenko and Rotenberg not pay any taxes!" You're totally fixated on all the fucked up shit in Russia! - Sure, there's a lot of it, but... - Not at all. You're wrong.


We have negative and positive messages. We even have a project called Mending the Law. I'll send you the link.

We have a list of laws that need to be removed. We're not just bashing them, as you called it.

Well, not your exact wording. We've put together lists of reasons why they should be amended or removed. I have a program now.

We've drafted around ten bills here in ACF and have been actively pushing them.

This is all a positive program.

No, that's creating, certainly.

But can you name three things you praised in Russia recently? Or rejoiced about something in Russia. Publicly, I mean. A post on navalny.com saying: "Dude! This is awesome!" - I rejoice all the time! - We're shooting this on the Cosmonautics Day, right? Some people are unhappy with a lot of things in our country and hate the Soviet Union, me being one of them.

- But I believe the Cosmonautics Day is a great day! - It is! Totally! 100%! When I was in school, my class was named after Yuriy Gagarin. It's a great day. I enjoy our country every breathing day.

- I really love... - As your potential supporter, I can't hear that.

Everything you broadcast, yeah, it's usually grounded in reality, but it upsets me so much! - Odd.

That's odd. - I feel like my brain's being squished by issues.

That's awful.

I thought I was such a positive person! You talk about awful things with a smile. That doesn't make you a positive person. But that's my job.

You report sports, while I report... One of the things you report is sports.

I report the awful things. I'm the head of the Anti-Corruption Foundation. I'm in love with my job.

Everything I do and publish are parts of my job.

People give us money for what I do. Doing my job means writing about corruption. I know, it's an unpleasant thing.

That's why it feels like I only post awful things.

At the same time, I love our country very much. I love Moscow. I think it's the best city in the world.

I enjoy opening new offices. I keep meeting great people.

The place is pretty. I'm very positive! Most importantly, my positivity lies in the fact that I believe that things can be changed.

Unlike a lot of people who want to hear positive things from me, but keep telling me: "This nation can't be helped." "We have a different mentality to South Koreans," tells me Yuriy Dud'. I think our mentality is fine. That's my positivity.

- I never said it's bad. Just different.

- Different. Well, I believe in our mentality's ability to beat corruption.

Is that not positivity? It is! Are you a nationalist? Many people call me that. What's interesting, the liberal community often calls me a nationalist, the nationalists often call me a "liberast."* At home among strangers, a stranger at home. All these ideological cliches simple don't apply.

I have a single item on my program that's widely considered nationalist, introduction of a visa policy for Central Asian countries. - I see nothing nationalist about it.

- And Transcaucasia? - And them, yes.

There's nothing nationalist about it. I can't visit Germany without a visa, can I? Well, I don't want wonderful citizens of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan to visit Russia without one.

That's a completely normal, standard European policy.

- But you want to get rid of visas for the European Union countries? - Of course. How are Tajiks worse than Germans? Germans live in a developed country, a country that's developed both economically and politically. I'm not saying that Tajiks as people, as individuals, as biological entities, are inferior to Germans.

But I believe in facts. I live in the real world. I can tell that Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are less developed countries.

They're sources of drug traffic.

People come from there in search of a better life simply because they have laughable wages and dangerous living conditions.

Thus we should at least introduce visa policies to at least somewhat control immigration. You ever thought that we might soon need to wall off Germany too, considering the number of refugees they're taking in? Refugees don't flee to Russia. I deal with reality.

What good is pondering hypotheticals? I look at REAL migration streams and I see that no one's fleeing from Germany to Russia. Our people, Russians, do flee to Germany. We, in turn, get tons of immigrants from Central Asia.

There's nothing good about that.

Because we need to manage immigration.

Let's list those countries. Central Asia is Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Transcaucasia is Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Georgians? We already require visas from Georgians. No need to change anything there.

- How do you plan to..? - You forgot Kazakhstan. - Visas for Kazakhstan too?! - Yeah.

I believe, them too. I know what you're gonna say! - I know you're gonna say they have a high standard of living. - Yeah.

- That we don't get immigrants from there. - Yeah. Nevertheless, we need a consistent immigration policy.

Visas are the foundation of a healthy immigration policy. We don't have immigration issues with Kazakhstan.

It would be silly to claim otherwise.


But those other immigrants can come in via Kazakhstan. - So of course I believe that we need visas for... - Makes sense, yeah.

How do you plan to work out the Caucasus question within Mother Russia? What do you mean by "Caucasus question?" I mean the... - Let's look at an example.

- Shoot.

Ramzan Kadirov is a loyal foot soldier of Vladimir Putin. They're all loyal foot soldiers. Let's assume that in 2018, Navalniy replaces Putin.

You honestly expect him to be buddies with you? Any governor in Russia, especially one from a Caucasus republic, is a loyal foot soldier. They all provide him with 99% of votes. They provide him with 99% in Kemerovo and in Mordovia.

You're wrong if you think that Kadirov is a more loyal foot soldier than someone like Merkushkin. That's one. Two, the Caucasus republics and the Caucasus question, to me, are no different than the Russian question.

Only over there, things are even worse. Their wages are even smaller.

Their corruption is even worse.

We have a country-wide truck driver strike going on.

The core of this situation is in Mahachkala, Dagestan. You know how the local authorities are settling it with those poor truck drivers? They're arresting and beating them up.

The Caucasus needs the same things as the rest of Russia, only more.

- That's a great campaign slogan.

- It's just the truth.

Again, how do you envision meeting and discussing issues with Ramzan Kadirov? First off, you need to investigate whether Ramzan Kadirov was involved in the assassination of Nemtsov and other crimes. His activities have to be investigated.

That's the first thing you do about Ramzan Kadirov. He's saying it himself, "Investigate me!" It's just that nobody does.

Remember the recent hearing? There was another one-day-long hearing regarding the assassination of Nemtsov. They asked the FSB detectives: "You went to Geremeyev's place..." He's a relative of Kadirov's.

"Why didn't you search his apartment?" They said: "The door was closed. We knocked.

Nobody opened, so we left." I had my apartment searched several times.

It looked very differently. If I didn't open, I heard the buzzing of a saw and saw my door being cut open.

No one even investigates these people.

And they should be investigated. Ramzan Kadirov too.

All Caucasian leaders, current and future, will always be complex people in complex circumstances.

But you come to terms with them on the foundation of the Law, just like with all other governors. (title card music) I watch all of your interviews.

You talk about the privatization and the scaling taxes, and compensation to the state and all that stuff.

I got a strong sense that you don't respect capitalism. I don't mean the people who enriched themselves during the privatization era.



Then name two or three honest Russian businessmen in your opinion. - Or best Russian businessmen.

- There's a ton! All the Yandex guys. There's a million of them! Volozh. The late Segalovich.

They created something where nothing used to be. Galitskiy! He created Magnit.

We may not see eye to eye politically...

- ...but he created them from nothing. - Not eye to eye? Why? - He doesn't make any political comments.

- He doesn't? He hasn't done any interviews for many years now.

- Maybe doesn't want to blurt. - Even better! Then I like him even more. There's a ton of real estate developers.

Their political views may be disgusting, but at least they're creating something. All the people that create...

What did they create? The thousand microdistricts that screwed up local infrastructure? There are bad ones, but there are good ones too. At least they didn't privatize. Mobile networks! They didn't exist in the Soviet Union.

They created it from ground up. All these things... Many of these businessmen are certainly crooky.

They bribe officials. But they're businessmen! THESE guys though... - They're not businessmen! They're leeches! - Tinkov? I don't know anything about Tinkov.

I can't really comment. All I know is his media persona, but have very little insight into his business, and little to say.

(title card music) Why did you relieve Maksim Kats just days or weeks before the Moscow election? Why did you relieve Maksim Kats just days or weeks before the Moscow election? He was fired by the chief of campaign, Volkov.

I agreed with his decision. "He's a dishonest person and a rogue." - That's what I think about him. - Why? That's how he is, he's crooky.

He always lies and makes things up. - Is that an emotional estimate or were there examples? - No, it's not. You have empirical experience of interacting with people.

You probably know someone personally who you think is a crook and a rogue. Yes. But I had examples that made me think that.

I have examples too. It's just that it's pointless to discuss them now. But I find this man dishonest.

Additionally, some of his views, particularly on corruption, make political cooperation with him impossible. For example, we were investigating Liksutov and found some of his real estate. His comment was, "Well, this official simply used loopholes in law." I can't accept that.

People who are okay with officials using loopholes in law to hide their property from us can never work with me. That's it. You said the decision was made by chief of your campaign Leonid Volkov, and that he had his reasons, but you didn't know them.

I know them. He though he was a bad worker.

- Afterward, Maksim Kats's girlfriend posted that... - God! I don't even wanna talk about it! It's ridiculous! - You know what? Fine. Let's do it.

- No, no, no.

We have to.

- Let's do the dirty details. - Yeah! We're not embarrassed by it. She wrote that his termination was about a woman.

Katia and Maksim had some sort of chemistry going on, but Leonid Volkov was trying to make a move on Katia and, she was allegedly quoting you, wanted to screw her. - But she refused him.

- I did? No.

I mean that you and Katia discussed this. As my incredible luck would have it, as part of my campaign, I was visiting the districts of Lianozovo, Maryino, Mniovniki, and gave speeches before the electors.

I was meeting with the people. I was busy doing that.

That's why all this commotion went by me and doesn't interest me now.

I trust my chief of campaign. He's my chief of campaign again. I've been watching his exemplary work for years.

He now leads a huge team. Hundreds of people. Later it'll be thousands of people.

He's a wonderful person. I've met his wife.

I've met his kids.

I don't and I won't believe any of this bullshit, because I believe in actions, and not what someone wrote on the internet. Who cares what they've written? This "someone" is a girl that used to work on Navalniy's online campaign before...

A lot of people were working on Navalniy's online campaign. Please! They're large teams.

Large teams breed internal conflict. It's inevitable. I look at the big picture.

I look at results. I look at the person's work and their reputation with the team.

That's it. How European are you in this sense? Can sexual harassment, in the European sense, be grounds for termination? - Inside our team? - Yes. - Of course it can! - If you caught Volkov red-handed, would you fire him? - Here's the deal.

If we received a complaint like that, I wouldn't investigate it myself.

We'd probably, in theory, put together a board. I'd remove myself from this matter.

If we got an actual complaint, if someone came to us and said, "I'm being stalked, harassed, and pestered," of course we'd investigate this report and act upon our findings.

It's not a European or non-European matter. It's about normalcy. People have to treat each other with decency.

If someone on the team is suffering, we have to do something about it. I won't get involved in interpersonal relations myself. I'm swamped with my own work.

(title card music) When I walked in here, I noticed someone in the newsroom tinkering inside their computer. When I walked in here, I noticed someone in the newsroom tinkering inside their computer. It really looked like they were looking for bugs.

Am I wrong? We don't even check our office for bugs because it's pointless. We'd lose to FSB in the "they bug, we debug" game.

We checked our office several times. It's actually pretty expensive. How expensive? It costs about 100,000* rubles.

I can't recall the exact figure, but I remember that it was pretty expensive. We had a raid recently where they stole all of our hardware.

The office was blocked for several days. There were people here even during the night.

We saw it through windows. So I have no idea how many bugs and cameras they hid around this place. They had plenty of time.

They could've hidden them in such a way that they're harder to find. We're not even going to waste money on debugging, 'cause, one, we don't have the money, and two, we don't really have anything to hide. (title card music) How much does a presidential campaign in Russia cost? Our estimate is that we'll need to collect and spend one billion rubles.

That's not much actually. But I'm safe from the greatest money sink. You usually spend the most on TV ads.

No one's gonna sell me air time. That's where we save a lot. But this billion is what we'll collect in donations.

We collect donations, the average is about 700 rubles, from several tens of thousands of people. We know that we'll be able to collect a billion. How much do you have already? 28 million, I believe.

Volkov knows the exact figure.

Somewhere around thirty. This whole arrest thing sort of boosted our... - They seized your electronics, didn't they? - Yes.

Where did you get the money to buy replacements? You're about to learn exclusive information! Between the 26th... After they seized our equipment and after all the videos about the seizing, between the 26th and April 1st, people donated 16 million rubles to the Anti-Corruption Foundation.

We even turned a bit of profit. - Sort of like disaster relief aid? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. People spread the word.

They saw they were taking away our equipment and started sending money. And bit by bit, we collected 16 million. The biggest whale donation, as they call them in the biz, that the Anti-Corruption Foundation has gotten over the course of its existence? 300,000 rubles.

- 300,000? - Yes.

- Not even a million? No. But our core is small donations. We're not chasing that million.

We'd rather have ten thousand people send us 100 rubles every month. It's reliable and it's clean. That's what we want.

So we're expanding the number of small-amount donors. Before you delved into politics, or leaped into politics, you were usually introduced as "lawyer Aleksey Navalniy." Not exactly. "Attorney Aleksey Navalniy?" I joined Yabloko, I wouldn't call it "leaped" to be honest, back in 2000.

But I became more or less recognizable to the population at large in 2007 or 2008, after my first lawsuits against Gazprom, Rosneft and Transneft.

They did tag me as "attorney" at the time. You're right.

- Okay. You're an attorney. - Yep.

Why doesn't anyone know anything of your lawsuits and successes as an attorney? Everyone who wants to know, does. Give me three lawsuits that you're proud of as an attorney.

All of my recent lawsuits in the European Court of Human Rights. My cell mates that were arrested along with me and shared a cell with me all the way back in 2011, I've filed all their complaints at the ECHR, and I'm sure they'll all get compensations, while I'll get my hefty attorney checks.

- The ECHR pays attorney fees.

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